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Statements Made By Kenneth AR on social media so far on the new EVO & XSP

Jagerbomb52

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Go through them. Add more as you find them. These are all answers to questions he was asked. Sorry I just copied the answers. Not to hard to figure out what the question was. :)

XPS will continue to be supported but new devices for the XPS are not being planned. Repair and CS will continue for some time (TBD) and there maybe some updates to apps and firmware but development is winding down.

We are focusing on the new drones (EVO being the first).


FLIR really is not the right camera and it became apparent that it would not meet the requirements for S&R and Emergency services.

What we are doing instead is evaluate what the correct thermal camera is and then what the market is for the camera.

I do agree for the need to have a thermal option but the FLIR is really intended for close-up operation and the quality fails quickly with distance.

Joey Hollingsworth Will there still be batteries available for the XSP ?
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Kenneth AR
Kenneth ARGroup Moderator Joey Hollingsworth A great question for CS (I'm more focused on the engineering side and don't have specifics on stocking, etc.)

I've been told CS support and repair will continue for some time for the XPS.

To be clear, we did not choose profit over loyalty.

What we found in design and testing is that we could not produce a product that would meet most of the requirements required of the users. Rather than release a sub-par product that might meet 25% of the market needs we chose to cancel development.

I'm sorry that you made a purchase decision based on a possible future product release and there is little I can say to change your opinion but the decision was based solely on research once we started market studied with FLIR gimbals in real-world scenarios.

the 1" was (I believe) was shown as a proof of concept at CES (but if my memory is correct or not is not the point). It turned out to have challenges that we where unable to overcome when attempting to mating the camera with the XPS.

there are programmable buttons on the back. They can be configured to perform some functions and expect those capabilities to grow over the next few app and firmware updates.

Max horizontal speed: 20m/s(44.73873mph) ascent: 5m/s descent: 3m/s

We expect the price to be in the neighborhood of $999.

In the first version expo on yaw, future version will include expo on other movements.

The sales units have carbon fiber arms; the units at CES are a prior run used for testing electronics and flight control firmware.

I'm hesitant at sharing a specific date especially since many things we are waiting on are beyond our control (e.g., FCC number for the transmitter).

That is the controller for the fixed wing. Looks like someone placed an EVO next to it

the controller has very similar settings UI as the app. It is not quite 100% but it is very close to expose all camera settings, especially those needed to adjust image quality.

The first units will have the same sensor as the XPS (Sony CMOS 1/2.3 F2.8)

Different cameras are being investigated. Key word "investigated".

At the show you can see a version with 1" and 360 camera. These are conceptual working units that we are using to evaluate market feasibility.

EVO does not have detachable cameras. If we release other versions with varying types of cameras they will be complete aircraft.

The SDK will not be released for the XPS.

For the EVO there will be 2 SDKs:

1) App SDK, a set of libraries that are linked into an app

2) A JSON based SDK that will give much closer integration to the aircraft.

The later will be released to the open source community with the plan to have the community create operational libraries which can be used for industrial and advanced applications not covered by the app SDK.

The plan is to be aircraft agnostic. All Autel Robotics aircraft (fixed and rotary) will use the same SDK, abstracting the differences under the app SDK.

The JSON SDK will have some aircraft specifics because it is the native communications between the app layer and RC (the RC talks JSON).

The SDK for the X-Star became problematic. The expectation was the firmware update could enable the SDK functionality required to support 3rd party apps but once designs where completed there where holes that are not easily closed.

It was decided to focus on making the new aircraft include a more advanced SDK model and all efforts where refocused.

Autonomous modes require a connected device. Photo and video shoots can be done mostly without a device.

Yes. The lens is a better quality (glass) but the same otherwise except with 60fps capture.

Another selling point in how we plan to manage NFZ (I'm surprised nobody asked)We only enforce NFZ for countries that require it by law. There is currently only 1 country (China) that requires it. The firmware has the capability in case a country adds the legal requirement.

My opinion is that the pilot is responsible (same as if you are an FAA pilot). I'd prefer to trust the pilot is following the rules than trying to enforce restrictions that are not legally required.

As you add to the list please try and stay on topic so this does not go all over the place. This is mainly for the new EVO and how Autel has dropped the XSP products.
 
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I just wish they would work on the problem with video not connecting! Why send my bird into the air and shoot video and photos if I can't see what it is
 
There is a bigger problem lurking behind the comments posted above which, to me, clearly outline a flawed business model.

Thanks for doing the research and making the post. And yes, I can hear the questions loud and clear.

Buyer Beware comes to mind.
 
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I just wish they would work on the problem with video not connecting! Why send my bird into the air and shoot video and photos if I can't see what it is

KunBow
I know you run Android so your problem is not related to the iOS problem. When I put on the final firmware I started to have the same type of problem you seem to be having. I tried uninstalling the App and reinstalling and that did nothing to fix the problem. Knowing that the terminals on the camera that connect to the craft is the life line for video feed and more I decided to use a good contact cleaner on them. This seems to have fixed my problem 99% of the time. I still get a App disconnect once in a while. I will have to shut everything down including the Android tablet and reboot. After that it seems to work perfectly. Hope this helps.
 
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I'm not sure why they can't continue to sell XSPs along with the Evo. It's only a year old, the tooling has been bought. You'd think they would try to get better ROI out of that investment.
 
I'm not sure why they can't continue to sell XSPs along with the Evo. It's only a year old, the tooling has been bought. You'd think they would try to get better ROI out of that investment.

I think they moved all production to the new one. That's why we don't see any XSP stuff. Like I have said before! If they can't help those of us having problems with video disconnected. Why stay
 
KunBow
I know you run Android so your problem is not related to the iOS problem. When I put on the final firmware I started to have the same type of problem you seem to be having. I tried uninstalling the App and reinstalling and that did nothing to fix the problem. Knowing that the terminals on the camera that connect to the craft is the life line for video feed and more I decided to use a good contact cleaner on them. This seems to have fixed my problem 99% of the time. I still get a App disconnect once in a while. I will have to shut everything down including the Android tablet and reboot. After that it seems to work perfectly. Hope this helps.

Don't have the cleaner. but have taken it off and used an eraser .. still no help
 
I'm not sure why they can't continue to sell XSPs along with the Evo. It's only a year old, the tooling has been bought. You'd think they would try to get better ROI out of that investment.
The main reason that they cannot talk about the main reason or make anymore XSP's is the cease and desist order they have against them. DJI stuck it to them and Autel needed to come up with plan "B' from what has been said.
 
Here is one on the Apple iOS problem from Ken this morning.

"We are waiting for Apple to fix the iAP2 communication SDK. Because of the design of the XSP we must use IAP2 and Apple, in the 11.2 release broke iAP2.

For EVO we took a different route with the controller communications hardware so we can use native communications stack and not iAP2 so it will not have the same issues."
 
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The main reason that they cannot talk about the main reason or make anymore XSP's is the cease and desist order they have against them. DJI stuck it to them and Autel needed to come up with plan "B' from what has been said.

Plan B looks a lot like a Mavic. When the cease and desist order comes for that, then what?
 
Go through them. Add more as you find them. These are all answers to questions he was asked. Sorry I just copied the answers. Not to hard to figure out what the question was. :)

XPS will continue to be supported but new devices for the XPS are not being planned. Repair and CS will continue for some time (TBD) and there maybe some updates to apps and firmware but development is winding down.

We are focusing on the new drones (EVO being the first).


FLIR really is not the right camera and it became apparent that it would not meet the requirements for S&R and Emergency services.

What we are doing instead is evaluate what the correct thermal camera is and then what the market is for the camera.

I do agree for the need to have a thermal option but the FLIR is really intended for close-up operation and the quality fails quickly with distance.

Joey Hollingsworth Will there still be batteries available for the XSP ?
Manage
LikeShow more reactions · Reply · 6h
Kenneth AR
Kenneth ARGroup Moderator Joey Hollingsworth A great question for CS (I'm more focused on the engineering side and don't have specifics on stocking, etc.)

I've been told CS support and repair will continue for some time for the XPS.

To be clear, we did not choose profit over loyalty.

What we found in design and testing is that we could not produce a product that would meet most of the requirements required of the users. Rather than release a sub-par product that might meet 25% of the market needs we chose to cancel development.

I'm sorry that you made a purchase decision based on a possible future product release and there is little I can say to change your opinion but the decision was based solely on research once we started market studied with FLIR gimbals in real-world scenarios.

the 1" was (I believe) was shown as a proof of concept at CES (but if my memory is correct or not is not the point). It turned out to have challenges that we where unable to overcome when attempting to mating the camera with the XPS.

there are programmable buttons on the back. They can be configured to perform some functions and expect those capabilities to grow over the next few app and firmware updates.

Max horizontal speed: 20m/s(44.73873mph) ascent: 5m/s descent: 3m/s

We expect the price to be in the neighborhood of $999.

In the first version expo on yaw, future version will include expo on other movements.

The sales units have carbon fiber arms; the units at CES are a prior run used for testing electronics and flight control firmware.

I'm hesitant at sharing a specific date especially since many things we are waiting on are beyond our control (e.g., FCC number for the transmitter).

That is the controller for the fixed wing. Looks like someone placed an EVO next to it

the controller has very similar settings UI as the app. It is not quite 100% but it is very close to expose all camera settings, especially those needed to adjust image quality.

The first units will have the same sensor as the XPS (Sony CMOS 1/2.3 F2.8)

Different cameras are being investigated. Key word "investigated".

At the show you can see a version with 1" and 360 camera. These are conceptual working units that we are using to evaluate market feasibility.

EVO does not have detachable cameras. If we release other versions with varying types of cameras they will be complete aircraft.

The SDK will not be released for the XPS.

For the EVO there will be 2 SDKs:

1) App SDK, a set of libraries that are linked into an app

2) A JSON based SDK that will give much closer integration to the aircraft.

The later will be released to the open source community with the plan to have the community create operational libraries which can be used for industrial and advanced applications not covered by the app SDK.

The plan is to be aircraft agnostic. All Autel Robotics aircraft (fixed and rotary) will use the same SDK, abstracting the differences under the app SDK.

The JSON SDK will have some aircraft specifics because it is the native communications between the app layer and RC (the RC talks JSON).

The SDK for the X-Star became problematic. The expectation was the firmware update could enable the SDK functionality required to support 3rd party apps but once designs where completed there where holes that are not easily closed.

It was decided to focus on making the new aircraft include a more advanced SDK model and all efforts where refocused.

Autonomous modes require a connected device. Photo and video shoots can be done mostly without a device.

Yes. The lens is a better quality (glass) but the same otherwise except with 60fps capture.

Another selling point in how we plan to manage NFZ (I'm surprised nobody asked)We only enforce NFZ for countries that require it by law. There is currently only 1 country (China) that requires it. The firmware has the capability in case a country adds the legal requirement.

My opinion is that the pilot is responsible (same as if you are an FAA pilot). I'd prefer to trust the pilot is following the rules than trying to enforce restrictions that are not legally required.

As you add to the list please try and stay on topic so this does not go all over the place. This is mainly for the new EVO and how Autel has dropped the XSP products.

I am a new owner and was pretty sold on the reliability of their product and customer service with modularity being nice (but apparently obsolete); however, I have a hard time wrapping my head around their strategic direction. They are discontinuing their XSP line to focus on EVO, but are keeping the EVO priced competitively with the Mavic Pro. So a low volume, low cost strategy without trying to compete with more product lines? Focusing on customer service and reliability as their competitive advantage? Maybe the margins weren't there for the XSP line and are for the EVO? I have many questions and worry about the future success of a company that doesn't or can't expand beyond one product line. I love an underdog and hope to see a bright future for them because competition is good for us.

That being said, I am extremely happy with my XSP (as a hobby). I have only a few flights under my belt and they have all been trouble free. I love that they continue to use Sony sensors as I have been really impressed with them in my A7II too.
 
The main reason that they cannot talk about the main reason or make anymore XSP's is the cease and desist order they have against them. DJI stuck it to them and Autel needed to come up with plan "B' from what has been said.
Cease and desist? Do you know of a link to the order? I could ask my attorney, but it will cost me dinner and drinks.
 
The main reason that they cannot talk about the main reason or make anymore XSP's is the cease and desist order they have against them. DJI stuck it to them and Autel needed to come up with plan "B' from what has been said.

I can find nothing on the lawsuit! I think that is gone. But Dec 12, 2017 - For example, DJI is current embroiled in a patent infringement claim against competitor Yuneec, asserting that the company infringes on two DJI patents:
 
I can find nothing on the lawsuit! I think that is gone. But Dec 12, 2017 - For example, DJI is current embroiled in a patent infringement claim against competitor Yuneec, asserting that the company infringes on two DJI patents:

OK went through my history on my web browser. Ya fun times lol

This gets updated daily so yes it is still going on and will continue till the XSP is not made anymore. Biggest reason to make something new and get out of a rut. The EVO has landed.

  • Case Updated Daily
  • Latest Docket Entry: 12/22/2017
https://insight.rpxcorp.com/litigation_documents/12105917
 
Last edited:
Additional camera details:

Come with a standard 4K/12MP camera
Support 4K 60fps video
Sony CMOS 1/2.3” sensor, F2.8
Ambarella H2 image processor
FOV: 94°
File Formats: Photo: JPG/DNG; Video: MOV/MP4

Still no word if Exif info for DNG\RAW formats is added.
 
Cease and desist? Do you know of a link to the order? I could ask my attorney, but it will cost me dinner and drinks.

The RPX Insight website has links to all patent infringement lawsuits in the USA. You need to subscribe to view the docket entries, but there is no charge for the basic subscription. If you want to view the actual documents referenced in the docket entries, the charge $0.10 per page. Note that some of the actual documents are either not available with a basic subscription or have been "redacted in their entirety". Once you subscribe you can do a search under "Autel" to find all current and past actions.

https://insight.rpxcorp.com/

There are two active patent infringement lawsuits, first one filed in Delaware, where Autel is incorporated, on 8/11/16. Second one filed in Washington state, where they are physically located, on 5/9/17. As best as I can tell (really need to be a lawyer to make sense of this stuff), the original demand (Delaware case) to "cease and desist" by DJI was denied by the judge on 6/8/17. They have been engaged in some sort of mediation and a dispute over a "discovery matter" since that time. There have been numerous recent docket entries in the Delaware case, but I really don't understand what most of them mean, other than demonstrating the case is still active and continues to drag along. The Washington case has been very quiet lately, nothing new posted since 9/6/17, when the entity "Autel (USA) Inc." was removed from being a party to the lawsuit. Both initial lawsuits are posted below:
 

Attachments

  • Delaware Lawsuit.pdf
    6.6 MB · Views: 4
  • Washington Lawsuit.pdf
    5.2 MB · Views: 1
Last edited:
Additional camera details:

Come with a standard 4K/12MP camera
Support 4K 60fps video
Sony CMOS 1/2.3” sensor, F2.8
Ambarella H2 image processor
FOV: 94°
File Formats: Photo: JPG/DNG; Video: MOV/MP4

Still no word if Exif info for DNG\RAW formats is added.
Thanks for all the camera info! My main objection (to most all small-sensor cameras) is gradation between white and black. As good as the XSP’s camera is, it’s gradation is limited in terms of highlight detail and shadow detail. Both are fine, just not in the same frame. It’s unrealistic to expect Nikon D810 gradation in a drone camera, but I can dream. I bet this one is better, but we won’t find-out until Agustine buys one and tests it :)
 
Thanks for all the camera info! My main objection (to most all small-sensor cameras) is gradation between white and black. As good as the XSP’s camera is, it’s gradation is limited in terms of highlight detail and shadow detail. Both are fine, just not in the same frame. It’s unrealistic to expect Nikon D810 gradation in a drone camera, but I can dream. I bet this one is better, but we won’t find-out until Agustine buys one and tests it :)
Hey start a go fund me and I will be happy to be a consumer beta tester LOL
 
So i guess 6 months to a year, wrap your bird around a tree & we are S.O.L.!! Expensive investment for my 1 1/2 year of fun.
 

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