Clarification on flying?

[Jagerbomb52]

Ok guess I'll be calling my local FSDO tomorrow to hear for myself, as there are dozens of sites out there that are fairly recent saying it is legal in class G as a hobbiest (so some significant miscommunication going on). Appreciate everyone's help getting to the bottom of this - and once I confirm I will stop flying at night (as I was always under the impression I was following the rules).

Looking forward to your response from your local FSDO.

 

[PoorMoney]

Well, I guess the strobe companies dont like this news.

 

[Heckmaniac`s Drone]

Looking forward to your response from your local FSDO.

Ok I spoke to my FSDO out of Philadelphia, PA - as if the water wasn't muddy enough already. He said if not flying under 107 then follow the community based rules. To my knowledge I don't think the AMA has anything on this other than "Night flying requires a lighting system that provides the pilot with a clear view of the model's attitude and orientation at all times." So there you have it 2 FSDO's state you cannot fly at night as a hobbiest without a waiver and mine refused to tell me yes or no other than instructing me to follow the flying community (AMA) safety guidelines. Now what???

 

[macoman]

Ok I spoke to my FSDO out of Philadelphia, PA - as if the water wasn't muddy enough already. He said if not flying under 107 then follow the community based rules. To my knowledge I don't think the AMA has anything on this other than "Night flying requires a lighting system that provides the pilot with a clear view of the model's attitude and orientation at all times." So there you have it 2 FSDO's state you cannot fly at night as a hobbiest without a waiver and mine refused to tell me yes or no other than instructing me to follow the flying community (AMA) safety guidelines. Now what???

I am in Philadelphia, PA... I only flight during the day time, never at night. I would not be afraid of flying at night if there are not people or transit over the path of flight.

 

[Ansia]

Ok I spoke to my FSDO out of Philadelphia, PA - as if the water wasn't muddy enough already. He said if not flying under 107 then follow the community based rules. To my knowledge I don't think the AMA has anything on this other than "Night flying requires a lighting system that provides the pilot with a clear view of the model's attitude and orientation at all times." So there you have it 2 FSDO's state you cannot fly at night as a hobbiest without a waiver and mine refused to tell me yes or no other than instructing me to follow the flying community (AMA) safety guidelines. Now what???

It seems your local FSDO officer is out of date on his information. In the Oct 5, 2018 Reauthorization Act. The AMA community rules stop being the accepted norm. Basically right now you are limited to daytime and a hard 400' ceiling. Everything else is the same as Part 107.

 

[Heckmaniac`s Drone]

I am in Philadelphia, PA... I only flight during the day time, never at night. I would not be afraid of flying at night if there are not people or transit over the path of flight.

I'm not afraid to fly at night - I actually think it's safer and much easier to see both your drone and any approaching aircraft at night using proper strobe anti-collision lighting. I just wanted to make sure I'm not breaking a well documented rule that I wasn't aware of - and from the sound of it, I'm not as no one clearly can point to documentation as it relates to hobbiest flights in class G airspace. I don't think anyone could say to me I didn't make a legitimate effort to follow the law here... please correct me or direct me where else to look if I'm missing something here.

 

[Jagerbomb52]

Yup from all the info I have seen the FAA has not committed to AMA community rules as the standard so that FSDO officer must have missed that memo.

 

[macoman]

Yup from all the info I have seen the FAA has not committed to AMA community rules as the standard so that FSDO officer must have missed that memo.

You can tell how updated they are with the drone rules... lol

 

[Heckmaniac`s Drone]

It seems your local FSDO officer is out of date on his information. In the Oct 5, 2018 Reauthorization Act. The AMA community rules stop being the accepted norm. Basically right now you are limited to daytime and a hard 400' ceiling. Everything else is the same as Part 107.

Ok about to give up - Exactly where (section or page) can I see what you stating in the Reauthorization Act from October where it removes community based rules for hobbiests? I looked under recreational UAS - didn't find anything. I find it hard to believe the expect an average hobbiest to shift through hundreds of pages of legal mumbojumbo to understand what they can or can't do on this.

 

[Ansia]

I read that mumbo jumbo in 2018, so I don't remember which page. All I can say is read it and get yourself up to date with the current rules.

 

[Heckmaniac`s Drone]

I read that mumbo jumbo in 2018, so I don't remember which page. All I can say is read it and get yourself up to date with the current rules.

Yeah - think I'm all set.

 

[Jagerbomb52]

I asked this question in a group that deals with FAA rules and here is one of the answers I got back.

"As I understand it, 49 USC 44809 places no time-of-day restrictions on recreational sUAS operations. Additional limitations on operation restrictions are to be defined by whatever code of conduct the operator is following as issued by a CBO.

Both the AMA (https://www.modelaircraft.org/.../files/documents/100.pdf) and the DUGN (http://droneusergroup.net/legal/safety-code/) safety codes allow for night operations with additional safety precautions.

Seems pretty clear to me, but FSDOs like to make it harder. "

 

[Heckmaniac`s Drone]

I asked this question in a group that deals with FAA rules and here is one of the answers I got back.

"As I understand it, 49 USC 44809 places no time-of-day restrictions on recreational sUAS operations. Additional limitations on operation restrictions are to be defined by whatever code of conduct the operator is following as issued by a CBO.

Both the AMA (https://www.modelaircraft.org/.../files/documents/100.pdf) and the DUGN (http://droneusergroup.net/legal/safety-code/) safety codes allow for night operations with additional safety precautions.

Seems pretty clear to me, but FSDOs like to make it harder. "

Awesome - thanks, that's what I thought. If it was this hard to get a straight answer from knowledgable pilots on this and other forums - i can't imagine if there was a cryptic rule buried in that Reauthorization Act that says you can't that you could reasonably prosecute someone for flying at night who is following well established rules from the prior year.

 

[Jagerbomb52]

Ah yes but has the FAA actually come out and said that they recognize either one of the two I posted as official CBO's and that you should follow them. I cannot find anything to that, only that you should follow CBO LOL so I am still confused.

 

[Crusader]

Awesome - thanks, that's what I thought. If it was this hard to get a straight answer from knowledgable pilots on this and other forums - i can't imagine if there was a cryptic rule buried in that Reauthorization Act that says you can't that you could reasonably prosecute someone for flying at night who is following well established rules from the prior year.

I spoke with Denver and Houston FSDO's and am happy to report that they are both under the impression that you can still fly at night under 101.

One thing I hate is vague law open to interpretation by various sources. I fall under 107, so my regs are clear, but Hobbyists don't seem to be getting a clear answer. I'm not going to pursue it any further though, mainly because as long as you are flying safely and with common sense, it's of no consequence to me. I just wanted to get clarification so none of you guys get hit with fines. And it would seem to me that if you somehow did get hit with a violation, you would have a legitimate defense. If the FSDO's can't come to a clear consensus, how can the operator be expected to have any better understanding of what's permissible and what's not?

 

[Heckmaniac`s Drone]

I spoke with Denver and Houston FSDO's and am happy to report that they are both under the impression that you can still fly at night under 101.

One thing I hate is vague law open to interpretation by various sources. I fall under 107, so my regs are clear, but Hobbyists don't seem to be getting a clear answer. I'm not going to pursue it any further though, mainly because as long as you are flying safely and with common sense, it's of no consequence to me. I just wanted to get clarification so none of you guys get hit with fines. And it would seem to me that if you somehow did get hit with a violation, you would have a legitimate defense. If the FSDO's can't come to a clear consensus, how can the operator be expected to have any better understanding of what's permissible and what's not?

I also have my 107, but can still fly as a hobbiest for personal enjoyment and not have to follow 107 guidelines - correct? Assuming my entire flight is intended only for personal use and not commercial / for profit use.

 

[Jagerbomb52]

It would be nice if you can have it laid out in black and white as it is for us Canadians..........another reason to move LOL

Night Flight Requirements

• 901.39 (1) No pilot shall operate a remotely piloted aircraft system during the night unless the remotely piloted aircraft is equipped with position lights sufficient to allow the aircraft to be visible to the pilot and any visual observer, whether with or without night-vision goggles, and those lights are turned on.
• (2) No pilot shall operate a remotely piloted aircraft system using night-vision goggles unless the goggles are capable of, or the person has another means of, detecting all light within the visual spectrum.

• SOR/2019-11, s. 23

 

[PoorMoney]

Well, it looks like I opened a can of worms.

 

[Crusader]

I also have my 107, but can still fly as a hobbiest for personal enjoyment and not have to follow 107 guidelines - correct? Assuming my entire flight is intended only for personal use and not commercial / for profit use.

At this point, I can't say either way. It's too confusing. Seems like it depends on who you ask ?

 

[Ansia]

To my understanding, once you are 107, you have to abide by 107 regulations. Like a cop is always a cop, even off duty. My 107 expires this year. Once it does, if regulations don't change, I'll get a couple night flights, before retesting.